I have little doubt that this is a contributing factor to electronic devices that are being powered from the grid locking up, and requiring to be powered down for a minute or so to reset them. Dirty power was described to me by an electrician years ago at the mill , sensitive electronic components were constantly dying and affecting the production of a lot of my machines.
I spoke with a machinery component supplier who was clued up and he suggested trying a UPS on one of the machines sensor units , results were conclusive and after a week five more units were ordered. It is a significant but hidden issue that could be costing consumers billions of dollars in failed appliances, and is also affecting the performance of inverter-based technologies such as rooftop PV and battery storage systems.
In recent years, the overwhelming temptation among network owners and many in the media has been to blame the power quality problems on the arrival of rooftop solar PV — which now sits on some 1. Its like we never enjoyed years of stable power that we could take for granted. Yep sure Giles, its the grids fault, not what intermittents are doing to the grid.
Various groups are now using CAGW as an excuse to introduce more and more draconian rules. Many are doing so with good albeit misguided intentions but eventually it ends in tears for everyone. Then the cycle repeats. So 12 months is way too long to wait for something to be changed that should have happened within a couple of weeks. If there is too much energy coming back up the system in the middle of the day it can cause either frequency, voltage disturbances in the system which will lead to transformers and other equipment tripping off to protect themselves from being damaged and that will cause localised blackouts.
But the industry that owns the network says the way customers are charged for electricity will have to change or expensive upgrades will be needed to keep solar customers on the grid…. ANDREW DILLON: There are pockets of the grid in some states already where we have significant penetration and we are starting to see technical issues and we are starting to see networks requiring customers to pay significant upgrades in order to be able to get on. We are working very hard to try and minimise all of these outcomes…. What we, as networks, have an interest in is running a safe network, running a reliable network, enabling the transition to a low carbon future and doing all of that while keeping costs down as much as possible….
The poles and wires companies each run a monopoly in their area, with a guaranteed return on investment provided they can justify the investments to the regulator. Money for jam. The cost borne by renters would be spread out over four years and paid incrementally through monthly rent. Audrey Zibelman, chief executive of AEMO, says she would prefer to see encouragement for batteries rather than solar panels so that solar power can evolve from being part of the problem of managing a rapidly changing grid to being part of the solution.
Zibelman is concerned that the hollowing out of daytime demand on sunny days could force coal plants out before their scheduled retirements, exacerbating the problems in managing the grid and potentially resulting in the sort of price spikes seen after the closures of the Northern generator in South Australia and Hazelwood in Victoria. Rooftop solar systems may end up never paying for themselves as households would be selling power for zero dollars during the day and buying it back at much higher rates in the evening….
Worse than before actually. Morrison needs to grow up and sack him from the party. If there is such a rule it must be changed. How can any party put up with such sedition? Personally I think it would be better if solar installations were controlled, with customers having to demonstrate what their typical load is. Export to the grid would be incidental, not a designed in overload. However it would be just more rules, enforcement etc to deal with. Now, 12 years later, show creators Matt Stone and Trey Parker have orchestrated a mea culpa.
Before he helps them, Gore asks them to apologize in the episode. Well, now you can just deal with it yourselves. I read the ABC news story and the take-away message is that the grid operators have set their nominal transformer output voltages too high, robbing revenues from end-users who own panels.
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They also need to cater for peak demand after sunset, which is when we have the maximum voltage drop, meaning this is the time the voltage measurements need to be taken, rather than during the day. Of course all of these engineering decisions were made before solar panels were added to rooftops. Ironically, I pointed out this pending problem many years ago in comments in an article on The Conversation. Of course those comments invoked an angry response from the hyper-alarmist viwes of those readers.
Jo Nova reports on the voltage issues caused by solar [ Do they seriously want us to reverse our living standards and go back to the sixties? Chinese companies, provincial governments, and media routinely list any kind of outbound foreign investment by a state-owned enterprise or Chinese private company as a BRI project, even if the host country is not yet a BRI country. From this point of view, Australia is already participating in the BRI….
Other examples abound. Tens of thousands of plug-in hybrids PHEVs bought with generous government grants may be burning as much fuel as combustion-engine cars. Many drivers may never have unwrapped their charging cables, The Miles Consultancy said. The British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association BVRLA , which represents many fleets, said higher taxes on diesel cars incentivised companies to buy plug-ins, even if they had no intention of using their electric capability.
Funny…i got sent a photo showing a electric vee-hicle plugged in at a campsite, charging from a diesel portable gennie which was sitting in a covered trailer, pulled by a petrol engined car. Thats gold….. I get about up here, and I have seen, regularly, one Tesla S, which presumably lives here, as I see it weekly, and therefore is likely to plug in at home.
Of course, up here the two wheeled interference will be ridden by folk clad in lycra, but the Tesla will still be hard pressed to park in the slot. Renewables, increasing efficiency, electrification of end-use demand including electric vehicles EVs are all driving the energy transition. What if it happens a lot faster? Our Carbon Constrained Scenario envisages a world in which existing and viable technology trends accelerate, steer policy, and become bound together to shape far faster cuts to carbon emissions than we see today under current pledges.
I talked through the implications for the energy mix with David Brown, Senior Cross Commodities analyst…. Q: David, rapid decarbonisation must be great news for renewables? Q: And the big loser? Coal demand halves by even with no international carbon dioxide pricing regime as the power sector switches to gas and renewables. India is the only major consumer in the scenario where we see demand for coal increase through This vast amount of electricity is equivalent to twice the average annual power consumption of Switzerland….
By the end of , 21 ultra-high-voltage lines had been completed in the country, with four more under construction. If the world wants to move energy around on a continental scale then ultra-high voltage grids are needed. It will be able to deliver about gigawatts of electricity. This is roughly the output of nuclear reactors…. In September, China said it will sign off on 12 new ultra-high-voltage projects by the end of China could place coal or nuclear power generation in the Gobi desert and then transmit the power to Korea, Japan and the coastal areas of China.
Natural gas power could be generated by Russia in Siberia and transmitted to other countries in Asia. Massive solar and wind farms could also be built in Mongolia and Siberia. Less than half of the ultra-high-voltage lines built or planned to date in China are intended to transmit electricity from renewable sources, according to a late…. These priorities go hand-in-hand. Environmental and indigenous rights groups have cheered the decision as a significant win for the planet. Voltage here has been increasing since morning volt, volt and just now volt. These disconnects can be early , peak or late with most occurring early rather than at peak.
The blurb points to synergy. Nowhere, do Synergy show their work.
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So I have no confidence that anybody at Synergy is capable of doing arithmetic based on things in the real world. If you have heard anything about high wind driven fires tearing up Ventura County and adjacent Los Angeles County cities, believe it. There has been destruction of homes all the way from Thousand Oaks to Woodland Hills with the fire being driven clear through to the west to Malibu where it will no doubt rain down fire on the Pacific Coast Highway and homes with multi hundred million dollar price tags. This is the worst I have ever seen.
Thankfully no injuries have yet been reported and evacuation orders were gotten out early. Unlike the last fires that raged through miles of chaparral, this one is aiming squarely at an area as densely populated as it could find. More than 75, homes are under mandatory evacuation orders. And with exit routes being limited and some were closed by the fire at times it has been a problem to get to safety. We are home and in no danger since the first evacuation order came at roughly AM. The wind was blowing the fire away from us. But I never want to go through another night like the last one. I know you in Oz have range fires like this from government refusal to allow clearing of brush from private land.
How do you get prepared for a fire that the wind might blow at you at 40 to 60 MPH? But it must be well over by now. And there are several deaths. This will be a long siege. Prolonged drought, high wind and low humidity are a bad combination. When there have been so many recent fires in California the Government has absolutely no excuse for allowing this one to happen. Unfortunately it seems that they preferred to avoid the political kick back that would result if they went ahead and made some smoke during controlled hazzard reduction burns.
This fire was staring everyone in the face, and nobody saw it???? Despite what politicians want us to believe, this fire was preventable. Drought, high wind with low humidity and poor preparedness to handle something this bad are all stacked against ending this any time soon. I finally heard no less than a fire chief echo Jerry Brown that climate change is responsible for the severity of this fire.
What is wrong here is the assumption that having paid at least half the cost, the public should pay again for unwanted lunchtime solar, the least needed power in the country. Why even bother connecting these solar panels to the grid?
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The cost in having to provide backup power probably exceeds the value of the power but still people receive cash for something no one wants. Worse for the solar panel people, if they are connected to the grid and the grid goes down, they get shut down too. If a consumer thinks solar is a good idea they should pay the entire cost themselves.
Why have the big rotors spinning in case of a cloudy day? We are all paying again for nothing. Ripoff on ripoff. So stop connecting them except perhaps in isolated small communities where they make sense and you can use Tilly lamps at night or put in a big battery. Like all distribution systems, water was not meant to go back uphill. Like Snowy II. It does not make economic sense. As for the savings in CO2, what savings? The carbon dioxide debt of all this exceeds many years. Nonsensical and useless solutions to non problems, all at our expense.
Electric swimming pool heaters for the middle classes, paid by taxes on the poor. With all the media commentators spruiking up rooftop solar power, and how it will be the answer to our problems, the average person is being force fed false information. That rooftop solar is only subtracting slightly from just what is consumed already in that Residential sector. Mate of mine got a whole heap of black drip irrigation pipe, put it in big zig-zags on his garage roof, circulates using a small solar driven pump.
Works well for most of the year.
High volts could mean wasted solar
Tony, Im not sure the reality is quite like that.. Whilst i do not believe the data on RT generation is accurate,.. A similar effect is seen in the USA.. Infact , in CA this is causing a bigger issue with the rate of demand increasing between pm to require a GW ramp up as the solar input dies down. Sorry Tony,.. The take up of rooftop solar is not as significant in other states but the change is noticeable.
In it is peaking around MW. If rooftop solar continues to go in at the present rate of 1GW per year, by it will be painfully obvious that there is a problem digesting it. This level of unscheduled generation in the grid is a destabilising factor. Grid prices are bound to increase. If not then that will add another layer of costs plus the intermittency from SA will drive wholesale price up in NSW.
Angus Taylor has proven inept. None of the ACCC recommendations have been adopted. I cannot see anything changing. That means they can use the coal generators to provide stability rather than relying on their own gas and Victorian coal. Nominal voltage is set at the generator, they mainly control frequency. The next suburb which has a large shopping mall and modest take up of rooftop solar would not have the problem, their substation keeps things under control, so if you are worried about high voltage avoid housing estates where the developers do you a favour and put cells on every roof.
I can see a grid scale problem in WA where they have high take up of rooftop solar and no interconnectors so that on a good day solar can virtually supply the market. I doubt this is widespread though. If it was then it would cause problems. Quite right. No one transforms this power back up the system, a number of times to put it up on the National grid.
A dormitory community generates power their neightbours do not want either because they are all at work too. So solar panel people earn more money from the wider community for nothing at all, while everyone pays the infrastructure cost and the standby power and night time power and they line their pockets for no reason at all. There is no CO2 reduction but the cash flows to the lucky ones. When you consider that this alone is forcing electricity prices up, it is not even a nett benefit.
No one is better off, but some are better than others. Greed not Green. The transfer payment from consumers to grid scale solar and wind generators is significantly more than consumers pay to local rooftop generators. Retailers can achieve their RET obligation at much lower cost buying rooftop solar compared with grid scale wind and solar. Also there is nothing stopping electricity flow in any direction in the grid. It is simply a matter of setting the voltage levels to get it to flow from one location to another.
The rooftops in South Australia could very well be supplying part of the load at the aluminium smelter at Portland. Local gas and import are making up the shortfall. One of the issues for SA Power Networks over the last few years has been setting local voltage levels to reduce the instances of solar inverter overvoltage. No doubt that issue is one factor behind the push to subsidise household batteries. So we pay, though STCs for half the cost of the solar panels and installation. We get nothing back that we want and we pay again.
However the middle class home owner gets to a point where they are getting free energy from a system for which we paid in full and they keep earning. Where is the fairness in that? Consider private Green group Hepburn Wind which paid off its giant windmill years early including State subsidies. With no debts at all it still gets LGC cash simply for producing wind power. Money for nothing at all of any benefit for anyone else.
Even if no one buys the electricity. Plus the highest electricity prices in the world for what they do produce, if anyone wants it. Why the cash, our cash. This is robbery. Outrageous, like the Solar panel people. It is not Green. It is Greed. The same greed with electric cars. Then consider the economincs of a Tesla. There should be a huge tax on electric cars because of the cost to everyone in infrastructure which does not yet exist and for which we all have to pay and the higher CO2.
Why have carbon taxes on coal and encourage electric cars? We cannot afford them. There is no saving for anyone.
There is no lower CO2. Still we are told this is the future. For the rich. The range-ometer said I had km left, but the farce that followed should make us all think twice about going electric. They are much more expensive. Replaceables are a full substitute for fossil fuel power. Plus a very long power cord on every appliance or car. Fully electric cars are the future.
So unless you want to build all the electricity infrastructure again to charge millions of cars simultaneously, it is not the future. Fully electric cars are CO2 clean. Except that they are worse than existing cars in CO2, price. Everything except acceleration and if you use that acceleration, you will not make it home. Lugging a 2. In volume, electric cars will be cheaper. There is no evidence of that despite the fact that there are over 2 million electric cars being used today. Generally at least 3x the price of petrol cars or hybrids. We should all pay for the infrastructure because they are the future.
There is nothing nett Green about electric cars. It is a fantasy. Just like there is nothing Green about diesels which pump out nitrous oxide which becomes nitric acid in your lungs. The total cost to society of moving to all electric cars, windmills, solar panels is horrific, unsustainable. Half the consumption because braking recharges the batteries. Downhill recharges the batteries. If everyone used hybrids, total consumption would halve. If everyone used fully electric, Australia would be devastated and people would have to walk to work.
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And puts no load on the grid at all! You can always drive home, out of petrol or with a flat battery. Just not both. Refill the 50 litres in a few minutes, not two days. On the topic of this thread, injecting uncontrolled or marginally controlled power back into the grid from household solar can create grid instabilities as noted. The problem is an engineering problem.
I think the back feed power idea from domestic solar was a bad idea. Solar is fine if it just powers the house. To inject power into the grid which requires stable frequency sync as well as voltage. Useless lunchtime solar is no help to anyone. Let people pay for their own batteries. It is all based on an unproven concept that we are all somehow better off. We are not. The unit was shutting down to protect itself. The only solution that is cheap and this might not work is to fit a UPS which might tone down the high voltage? A full-conversion UPS … one that converts incoming AC to DC and then produces a quasi-sine-wave output at the proper voltage and frequency.
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As I understand it, the method used to control the voltage is by increasing or decreasing electricity supplied to the grid. When the sun is shining brightly and the PV solar is generating max electricity, the grid manager must sense that and reduce the output from the generators that they can control dispatchable such as the fossil-fuel fired ones.
I think that it is marvellous that the PV solar inverters shut down at V a they are the cause of the problem anyway! That may help to control the over-voltage condition. When the sun sets is the time to check the voltage on the grid as the PV solar will not be contributing to the problem. If they managed to reduce the output voltage by making adjustments to taps on the transformer should that be possible which I doubt , the voltage would be too low when the solar ceases generating as the sun goes down. Voltage is just the unit of measurement of EMF electromotive force which causes the current to flow.
EMF can be sensed along the way and will vary for a host of reasons but it is not what you are sending, it is the current, it does the work. It has been a long time since I studied the subject and I may have phrased this poorly. Whoever from Energex that made these statements is surely wrong!
Controlling the voltage on the grid was difficult enough without the variable, intermittent and uncontrollable sources. Cal Fire officials have not disclosed a cause for the Camp Fire, which has consumed more than 70, acres, destroyed more than 2, homes and caused a reported six deaths. The utility company has been criticized in the past year by residents and state officials after a bevy of wildfires tied to downed power lines swept through the state in October At about a. The first firefighters arrived there at a. The utility, which already has been criticized and sued in a number of other large and deadly fires across California, had announced two days earlier that it might shut down power to parts of Butte County amid forecasts of high wind and low humidity.
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Bradley, P. It hosts seminars, tours, and other events, and more recently organizes popular networking events. In step with its goal to enhance solar energy awareness, NorCal Solar is conducting three bus tours of local solar facilities during Intersolar NA. The first two, on July 9th , will take participants to solar installations around San Francisco and at Google headquarters in Mountain View. The other trip, on July 13th , will visit wineries in the Napa Valley that utilize solar electricity. Registration for these tours is through the Intersolar website, www. Contact Us.
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