And if they decide not, No hard feelings! I disagree that this article is thoughtful or intelligent, it reflects a completely false view of Mormons and asserts that they are victims of untruths related to historical facts. Come live here in Utah ans see the manipulation and interference in our community by the LDS and the rest of the ignorant followers.
If this lady got her PHD then it should be invalidated. I agree with the article and wish more people were educated on the history of discrimination against church members and why it exists. Surveys have shown that an atheist candidate for U. Is there some reason why an individual with a different, yet equally unacceptable idea about a god, or many gods, should not be scrutinized for unproven mysteries they choose to accept as a personal truth? Anyone who. By all means, go to mormon. Then visit exmormon. To learn what any organization teaches or represents, you have to go to the source — the organization itself.
Anything else would only be heresay and biased, personal opinion. I certainly hope no one in America is shallow enough to base their vote for President of the U. Mormons are biased in favor of Mormonism, main-stream Protestants are biased in favor of main-stream Protestantism.
Atheists are biased in favor of Atheism. It would be foolish for anyone to presume they are devoid of bias. However, since biased sources of information are all we have to work with, it is best to proceed by simply taking that bias into account and trying to collect the primary-source information. Furthermore, all organizations have unsavory elements E. Church congregants who gossip behind your back, political fraud in the white house, mounting student debt for BU students, etc… , but those organizations are unlikely to tell you about the unsavory elements upfront because they want to present themselves positively.
Of course those students will be biased by heaps of student loans and a potentially daunting future, but that does not make their case illegitimate. I am a Mormon cultural or middle-way , and I recommend mormonthink. There are many different belief levels of Mormons. Obviously, most ex-mormons will have a negative bias, and most actively practicing Mormons will have a positive bias.
Many Mormon fans of Mormonthink. Go to en. Please, do not try to represent a biased anti-Mormon site as somehow unbiased. They clearly are not. For example David likes to breath heavily and thrust himself up and down upon children. Creeper right? But what if David is a life guard performing CPR on a child who is not breathing after nealry drowning? Well, if you want a simple direct answer, it calls into question the intelligence and gullability of that individual. You should absolutely consult ex-Catholics and ex-Baptists about those religions.
Plenty of crazy BS from all of them. I think then you would be implying that Ken Dahl is crazy. Mormons are good at deflecting information they choose not to deal with. The truth is Mr. No one responding could argue that, so they choose to divert your attention to what he was associated with, hoping they could convince, the reader he was misinformed.
So argue facts if you going to give Mr. Dahl a hard time you have no idea what it takes to be an ex-Mormon. Just sayin. And where they are not accurate, well, those are just pernicious lies masquerading as accuracies. And all his comments are aimed at hurting the LDS church. There is only one standard to really judge the LDS church — go and visit one yourself!
See the people, ask them questions, hear the range of answers, and be prepared to challenge yourself in your assumptions. You control the pace of the research, and if you do not like it or get uncomfortable, you can leave at anytime. But at least you will know much more than you ever will just by reading the opinion of others. Same goes for the Book of Mormon. Those answers may come as thoughts, words, or feelings, but when they do, you will recognize them for what they are: words from the Holy Ghost testifying of the truth of what you are reading.
The belief system of an individual, however solid or absurd, speaks volumes about their character and value system. Ken, all religions read like nonsense to unbelievers. Is it reasonable to believe that salvation depends on whether or not one consumes certain animals or combines certain food products? Christianity absolutely claims to be the only truth, to the exclusion of other religions.
Christianson, well stated. I was going to say something similar and then read your thoughtful response. Many thanks. Ken, I think you forget…we are 14 million strong and growing fast. Mormons will not be stopped by someone with small, demeaning, innaccurate, ugly thoughts like yours. You really sound like you have personal problems and hate yourself.
I hope you find more worthwhile things to do in your life. You think your snide remarks will change any of that? Even states have ordered our extermination…Hey! So Ken…in the end. Save yourself some study time by doing your homework instead of writing ignorant things on here. Do you really think at this point in time that a Hindu, Jew, Buddhist, Muslim, atheist, or anyone of any faith other than Christianity could be elected president of the US regardless of their qualifications?
This seems obviously hypocritical to me when these same churches not just LDS campaign for the banning of gay marriage, for example. I have the same problem with the Catholic Church or any church that spreads hate. The reason why my church got so involved is because prop 8 was a moral issue. We push for anything that betters the community morally.
But what we do not get involved in is political parties. The reason why we are against gay marriage and gay acts in general is because we believe that marriage is a very sacred covenant towards god and the between the spouses. And should only be done between a man and a woman. We also believe in a pre-mortal life and when were spirits we had a gender already with us. Thus a man acting like woman or woman acting like man is wrong and is a mockery to god.
I cannot over state how sacred marriage is to our religion. We do not hate gays we hate the sin not the person. For more information try this website. This would be true if the organization itself wanted to be identified as unique entity. Yes they are like a Chameleon changing colors based upon who they are talking to.
If The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints please note the real name of the Mormon Church were to present itself as Christian, and not actually be Christian, how many converts do you think would stay in the Church, after finding out they were duped into thinking the Church is Christian? I am a convert of many years, and I can guarantee any and all that this church is a Christian Church.
If it were not, I simply would not be a member. Yes, you should absolutely talk to ex-catholics and ex-baptists. Your distorted representation of the faith I believe appears designed to discount the merits of the individual without considering their actual position on a given issue. You should know better. On this basis, honest people from any political persuasion should be anxious to see a Mormon candidate from their party elected.
Mormons are absolutely Christians. A Christian, by definition, is someone who believes in the gospel of Jesus Christ, believes that Christ is their Savior and the Redeemer of mankind. They stand with conviction to declare the Jesus is the Christ and give a lot of attention to spreading His gospel throughout the world. Furthermore, they provide humanitarian efforts throughout the world that are unparalleled by other large service organizations and non-profits. Service is a central concept of the Mormon belief system that stems from Christs teachings.
The church does nothing to hurt humanity or individuals. In other words, I am a Mormon. I have learned many things about Jesus Christ while attending meetings there, and one day after partaking the emblems of the Sacrament I wrote the following. I hope you like it, and that you and all others who read this will realize that Mormons are indeed Christians.
Sacred are the things of Christ; so great the price he paid. Reverently I ponder how his life he freely gave. I promise to remember him; my Savior ever more. Sacred are the things of Christ; I eat the broken bread. I recall his body bruised; to the cross how he was led. I promise to forsake my sins; I plead forgiveness now. I feel my burdens lift from me; I make this holy vow.
Sacred are the things of Christ; I take and drink the cup. In Gethsemane he bled; On the cross they raised him up. He is my Covenant Father now; Oh, praise his saving grace. Justin, the Bible calls Jesus the Son of God. The Bible also says that all humans are children of God, and therefore heirs and jonit heirs with Christ. That makes Jesus and all humans brothers and sisters, unless you want to add or take away from the words of the Bible.
Furthermore, many of the early Christian fathers wrote that God became man to teach man how to become god. You are right that most western Christian sects do not believe these things. I understand that as LDS you want to take pieces of scripture and twist them to fit Josephs theology. This is not Christian theology at all and is not a correct understanding of the passage if you study it. Romans is Paul telling the Jews they were not part of gods new order John They had not been born again with regenerated eyes. To be part of this family you have to be in Christ, associated and identified with even His sufferings that you may share in His glory.
We are joint heirs if we are born again. We will inherit the kingdom of heaven. I do not respond to belittle you. In fact I have a great amount of love for you and I want you to find freedom in a world without legalism. Don take my word for it. I will name a few of your own. You also mention that many of the early christian fathers wrote that god became a man to teach… You are correct it was called Arianism and it was abolished and swept off the face off the earth because it was a heresy.
Last, you are telling me that god almighty could not preserve the words of his prophets and Jesus so he had to have a court documented occult treasure hunter lead a restoration that still has only 10 million members 4 million active. Please study and research your faith and its history. The Joseph Smith quote about God once being like us and we having the potential to become like him is being misused. God is perfected in his attributes and character.
Jesus asks his disciples to be perfect like God is. Thus through Grace, we too will become perfect. Romans The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Ok Ken, so you listed a bunch of weird things Mormons believe.
He hates when I do that stuff! Compare these standard mainstream Christian beliefs with any of the alleged Mormon beliefs on the list provided by Ken Dahl. Romney and Mormons want to be considered Christian to gain the right wing Christian vote. They cannot do that if they are show for what they really are which is no different than the branch dividiens. Justin, you have missed the entire point.
You are not a Christian. You do not live the Christian gospel. You repeat something you heard your two-bit pastor say. Thomas you may be right. I may not be a christian in your eyes. I am a Jesus follower and Jesus called a viper a viper. I also might add that we are commanded to defend the faith. I have no anger with you or any other but will defend the faith. I am not sure what a two-bit pastor is, but please study the Bible and research any faith that takes away from the bible and you will see that they just dont hold any weight.
The apostle Paul understood the importance of apologetics in his ministry to the Gentiles. Paul was not only ready to preach the gospel, but he was ready to defend the gospel as well Phil. In this context, Paul is in effect saying that he is ready to stand up for the true gospel amid some who were preaching Christ with selfish, insincere motives. Like Paul, it is incumbent on us as Christians to be ready, willing, and able to defend the true gospel of Christ albeit many have embraced a distorted gospel of Christ that cannot save Gal.
If you believe in Buddha, you are a Buddhist. If you believe in Vishnu, you are a Hindu. If you believe in the prophet Mohammed, you are a Muslim. If you believe in Jesus Christ, you are a Christian. Harry Reed is a Mormon. Should he be allowed to continue as Senate President? Does his religion allow him to think for himself. He is a Mormon. Shame on him……. This is ridiculous. Nice red herring to keep bringing up….. What is at mormon. But what you are talking about is extremely sacred and you are ruining how sacred such things are but I will address them. Garden of Eden in Independence, Missouri Independence, Missouri is probably the least understood topics in my church.
Prophets have even said that it is one of the least understood topics. Right here are some very deep stuff that most members do not understand. Temple complex at Independence Missouri: All god has done he has just specified place. Adam Ondi Ahmin is place that is kept ready at all times the missionaries that maintain this huge amounts of acreage report directly to the prophet. Polygamy: Here is the short answer. Long answer Your sealed to your first wife when she dies and you fall in love and get remarried and you die.
According to what you believe to be right the man would have to choose between to do. If that happened to me I would have a hard time choosing because I would probably love them both. But we do not pratice it on the earth today. Blacks being cursed: No we do not believe that either. I do not know why blacks did not get the priesthood and other prophets before blacks got the priesthood did not understand either. It is just like in the bible with Jews being taught first then the gentiles. We do not know why the gentiles did not get the gospel only that they could not get the gospel.
In fact Mormons when we were getting kicked out one of the main reason why we kicked out of Missouri was because we would unbalance the vote and support and abolitionist. We respect Native Americans to one of the earliest missions of the church was mission to the Native Americans and to this day they are still able to receive the priesthood as long as they live worthy for it. I mean what boy would lie about what at the time sounded absurd. I mean if he wanted more followers he could have told them that the trinity showed up.
Why would a man die for a lie? Why would a man lead his pepole through some of the most horrible trials for a lie? Why would a man suffer such adversity for a lie? A liar would realize it is not worth the trouble and try to worm himself out of the situation. But Joseph Smith stood tall and took on the adversities he was given. One time some men burst into his room took him from his wife and children. Left the door open and killed one of his babies through exposure. He had hot tar painted all over him and feathers on him to further humiliate him.
They also attempted to poison him when they tried to stuff it in his mouth he clenched his teeth and they broke the vial but no poison made it into his system. When he walked in his house his wife tried to remove the tar. But tar when it cools does not easily come off so while it came off it took painful chunks of flesh off of him. When morning came he walked outside and preached of Jesus recognizing the men who did this act to him in the audience.
A liar would not do that. A liar would not have walked out and preached knowing he and his family would suffer. How could a man who barely knew how to form a sentence let alone a book produce a book that has way more writing styles than any book ever written? How could a man who could only write his name write a book that added more words to the English language than Shakespeare. How could a man who had the education of a 5th grader write a dual history of two distinct cultures that the world did not even know about.
I mean if it is fake it is some pretty darn elaborate fiction way beyond the capacity of a 5th grader. How could a man who was alive at the time that medical science was so primitive that no one knew about germs and if you washed your hands after every patient you would be able to double their chances of living.
Reveal a lifestyle which is now the suggested lifestyle by modern science. This man was not delusional or liar because a liar would have gave in a long time ago. All that we know is in the pearl of great price. It is like the Quantum physics and very advanced science except this is religous quantum physics.
Why We’re Afraid of Mormons
The Masonic handshake is a very sacred part of the Endowment. The Endowment is to give pepole knowledge of the past i. The present Gods plan for us. The future Second coming. This stuff is so sacred that we do not mention this stuff outside the temple. It is not secret we urge every member to live worthy to receive a temple recommend and pull out their endowments. And as God is Man will become. I mean does a lion cub turn into a zebra no it becomes into an adult lion. The Three Nephites were taken up because God wanted an apostasy for his children.
Latter God decided it was time for prophets so thus came Joseph Smith. Either you are an ex-member who is trying to be Korihor like and trying to bring down the church if you are one of these people. Keep this quote in mind this quote. The Lord Almighty so orders it. Also keep in mind that it is never to late to come back and any ward would welcome you back like family. If you showed up in my ward me and my ward would. If your a person who does not fully understand what your talking about or you do not know where to find the truth and you keep on running into hateful ex Mormon sites.
Try Mormon. Jonathan, I suspect you will one day better understand your religion. Many of your comments hold errors. For starters Joseph Smith, in his own words, says he was 16 years old when this supposed visitation occurred. Mormons were breaking the law, not honoring their agreement with the state and harboring fugitives. That is why they were expelled from Missouri. The Mormon church has put lipstick on a pig with their sanitized and rewritten history. Just know. Some are good and true. Some, however, are evil and filled with lies. There are quite a few people who think that to get both sides of the story they should go to Exmormon sites.
Heck even some of the things are hidden in lies. The Mountain Meadow Massacre. Everyone knows about this. One it was not organized by the top leadership and two not everyone was killed or so to say brutally murdered. It was actually caused by this said group passing through one of the Mormon towns in Utah. They were so pissed with the mormons that they said when they made it to California they would bring back an army to make them trade and stuff like that.
They spared them and eventually returned them to their families. This is just one of many examples I can choose from. And even though this is actually the true account of what happened I bet there will still be people who see this and will disagree with me. But if you are a religious person who writes the evil lies on this and other articles I only have one thing to say for you. For every time you do you get that much closer to sring Satan rather then Jesus.
As Ken Dahl noted in his comments, traditionally, Mormons excluded Black people because they were considered descendants of Ham and cursed with dark skin. In more recent times, Mormons, perhaps to increase their membership, began reaching out and recruiting Black people. Most African Americans remain uncomfortable with this history. I thought the article was very good and a significant contribution even though this concern was omitted. Going to exmormon. Is this depiction fair? I gave some accurate info but that a lot of misleading info as well.
The mix in false ino with some truth and those without knowledge of true LDS doctrine and practice are deceived. They lie in wait to deceive Eph. I like your post Ken. I see where everyone is coming from who has replied to your post. So now I am going to give my opinion. I do not vote for a politician based on their religion preference, I vote for what they stand for in helping this country. I do not like Obama, never have and never will. I think this man has led America in to the depths of hell and if he is re-elected will just continue that journey.
I feel he is the better candidate for presidency. We have had Christian presidents in our history and I am pretty sure not every American voting for them were thrilled about that, but they probably voted for that person because of the stand that person took for America; and that is what is important.
I wish people would quit focusing on a candidates religion and the negative media the opposite candidate puts out there on them. I want to know what a candidate is going to do to help this country, especially now. Read and Learn what The Mormon religion is all about! Before you all making any remarks about it…. Thank you for this remarkably perceptive analysis. The basis for prejudice against Mormons is ignorance. Most people regard the Mormons as a blank slate on which they project their favorite fears about religious minorities.
Liberals think that any dedicated religioys believers are mindless robots. Conservative Evangelicals think Mormons are faux Christians conducting a vast conspiracy to drag real Christians to hell. Neither group gives Mormons credit for individual intelligence or moral reflection, and assume Mormon animosity toward themselves. The fact that Mormons are a bit betterneducated than average, that they are overrepresented in academia, that Mormons with more education tend to be even more loyal to their religion, that Mormons have a more positive view toward people of other faiths—that is, are less religioysly prejudiced—than any other denomination, are simple facts of which their critics are totally ignorant.
The criticsnat both extremes of the religioys spectrum only know one or two things about Mormons, and then extrapolate an entire bogeyman out of that. The most severe anti-Mormons at both ends are willing to invest vast amounts of time and rhetoric attacking Mormonism, but very little actually learning how Mormons themselves think. Their shared rationale is, this one thing I know about Mormons is so hateful to me, I do not want to waste any of my time gaining a sympathetic understanding of them. And the bottom line at both extremes is the determination to obliterate Mormons and their beliefs from society, to deny them the opportunity to participate in discussions about religion or public polucy in any forum controlled by the critics, and thus create a vicioys circle of prejudice reinforcing ignorance, which feeds prejudice.
I know very little about Mormonism but if people are discussing their beliefs and practices and how they have or have not evolved over time we would be remiss not to mention one of their recent practices that has lately emerged, namely that the Mormons have been obtaining lists of deceased Jews and posthumously baptising them.
Specifically, the practice has been discouraged, condemned, and can even lead to negative consequences for the members involved. Church officials also said the church would remove the names of Holocaust victims placed on the lists before Michel evidence that the Mormon lists still included the names of at least 20, Jews, many of them Holocaust victims and prominent figures like the philosopher Theodor Herzl and David Ben-Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel.
Radkey also provided Mr. Michel with evidence that many of these Jews had been baptized after the agreement. But Mormon officials say they remain in full compliance with the agreement. Ken, this is the first thing I thought of after reading this article. Regardless of the official policy, it seems to have still gone on after the agreement.
Seems like Ken did check his facts Carl. In terms of history and religion, 17 years ago would still be recent. Are we supposed to discount an event just because it happened 15, 20, or 50 years ago? It still reflects on the organization. Todd Christofferson, a church official involved with the negotiations. The church removed the names of Holocaust victims listed before and continues to instruct its members to avoid baptizing Jews who are not directly related to living Mormons or whose immediate family has not given written consent, Mr.
Christofferson said. And the official response to Mr. There appears to be some disagreement on the interpretation of the agreement between the Mormons and the Jews. Perhaps an additional agreement is needed to clarify. One thing, however, is clear. The church does not condone such actions and can and does revoke database rights from those who violate the policies. Should the church do more to prevent it? Probably yes. There could be some form of filter that detects prohibitted names and at a minimum flags them for review before they are allowed to proceed. Is the church obligated to do such?
There is no honest way I could say yes or no, but it appears to me that the answer is no. A clarifying agreement would be needed to make it certain one way or the other. As a member, I would not be against the idea of a filter like I described. Did they check to make sure there was or was not consent from the those who have decended from them?
If there was relational consent, then they were in agreement…. OMG, maybe some day thay will baptise Baptists as well…. Oh yeah, they already are. The Mormon practice of proxy ordinances for deceased individuals is keeping with their desire and value to see all of humanity receive every blessing God has in store for them. They are not closing doors on the past identities of those they do proxy work for, they open the door of opportunity to others.
It is a selfless kindness that is unbelievably being used as a political pawn of contention to drive a wedge where none should exist. If anyone from any religion wants to go out of their way to perform some rite on my behalf so that I can get access to all that God has for me, I would never complain! Even if that website were sincere, I think most Mormons would feel that it could have no impact on them.
There are several reasons for this:. Power: Again, most people would contend that they have no power to actually cause a change even if they somehow had the authority. The power behind Mormon baptisms is also questioned. Agency: Even with both authority and power, Mormons believe strongly in agency i. The same idea applies to Mormon proxy baptisms.
The same three ideas apply to any group attempting to postumously convert any other group. If they are trying to help you reach heaven or send you to a significantly hotter place, it will make no difference. This is one reason why the church has any agreement at all with any Jews. If you think about it, the church is under no legal or other obligations to care about offending anyone. If they wanted to, they could simply continue without caring what anyone else thinks of them. However, they work out agreements like the one in instead.
John and Carl- first of all Carl whether the Mormon church has followed its agreement with Jewish organizations is bad enough—the point is that they baptized deceased jews who of course could not defend themselves and they baptized Holocaust jewish victims who were destroyed for being jewish, many of whom enjoyed and believed in their religion and culture and you would imagine after suffering horrible atrocities for their identities and beliefs and paying the ultimate price for them, do not want to be listed in some Mormon genealogy as baptized Mormons.
The point is that as recently as jewish organizations had to point out to the Mormon church that this practice was wrong and offensive otherwise they never would have got it or stopped it or even thought about it. I have to agree with Carl about this topic. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has no legal obligation to change its policies about baptism for the dead but do so out of respect and at the request of those who feel their rights of religion are being imposed upon. There are two practices of the church that should be made aware to those who are having a problem with baptisms for the dead.
Before a baptism for the dead is to be submitted. A deceased person is supposed to have been deceased for more than 90 years, or the submitter should get permission from kin before a baptism is submitted. The Church practices a policy that it teaches the members the rules that they should follow and then let the people mostly govern themselves. This means that rule 1 is in place, members of the church have been told about it, and should follow it. So I think we need to clear something up here. Baptisms for the dead are indeed a service, and a service that is not considered by anyone to be binding upon an unwilling individual.
Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that baptisms for the dead, just like baptisms of the living, are only of force when the individual in question accepts the ordinance. The record that is kept simply shows that their work has been done. That is, as a church. The church is made of individuals. And the individuals conduct the work of temple ordinances, including baptism for the dead, on a very personal basis.
I say again that we as a Church have done nothing wrong. Consider the fact that automatically assigning nonbelievers to hell after this life with no reprieve has been the general Christian, Islamic, Jewish, etc, tradition for millennia. Given the reasoned analysis of modern mormonism given by Dr. Hutchison-Jones, the opening tone of the article is puzzling.
Opening with a flippent remark about Mormon cultural practices is pretty much an ethnic slur. Hutchison-Jones specifically refutes that very ignorance. Any practicing Mormon who embraces polygamy is excommunicated. These polygamists belong to an entirely separate religion that is generally disliked by LDS.
Even a simple google search could have easily revealed this fact. Sound familiar? Just like mainstream LDS want to be called Christians while others object , you have no right to define others religious identification. That Catholics cannot say that someone who calls himself catholic but who in actuality is not a member of the Roman Catholic Church, is not catholic? Your comment is nonsensical. Jews are by matter of lineage and birth always Jews. If you understood anything about the Jewish heritage you would know that.
Steve, people can convert to Judaism. This is especially true in an organization like the Catholic Church which has so much structure. Your statements about Mormon polygamy are misleading. It is true that polygamy is not allowed to be practiced by living Mormons, but it is very much still a believed practice my fellow Mormons who attend the temple and have had a spouse die can confirm , and polygamy is still included in official Mormon doctrine Doctrine and Covenants section I think both Mormons and non Mormons should look at why Polygamy was started.
Joesph Smith the Mormon Profit practice polygamy and took on wives at the age of 15 and while his friends were away he would tell their wives God wants you to marry me. Joesph Smith was a horn dog. That is why polygamy is in the Mormon church to begin with. It was also a means of providing for those women at a time when marriage was a highly valued institution in our society.
Proof again, that racism is not the problem it used to be, rather religious intolerance is still the number one issue as it has always been. After all, our country was founded because of religious intolerance. As a minority, I can tell you that Racism is still a problem. Religious intolerance is a problem too. There are lots of problems. Maybe in some parts of the country, and maybe in small circumstances, but I BEG to differ. This country has come a long way—look at Powell and Sec. Soon, whites will be the minority and Hispanics the majority…will whites be given an advantage in college admissions?
How will this be perceived?? Jackson, are you trying to start an argument? But Kathy is right that it still exists. I think especially in a city like Boston you might not see it as much as other cities or parts of the country. According to Wikipedia, So how soon exactly is this happening? Asian Americans make up 4. The reason is because if you look at average education levels and household incomes they are higher for whites and Asians Americans than for Latinos and African Americans. This is obviously way off topic from the article.
Other minorities at BU will say the same. Only those who are on the receiving end of racism get to decide that. Not off topic; KathyBates brought up racism after all. A race base policy. Go beyond wikipedia, which is not a great source anyways.
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The birthrate of minorities has surpassed those of whites. And by Hispanics or Hispanic whites, if you wish are expected to surpass non-Hispanic whites in the population. Interesting article.. Instead, they persecute those who believe what they once believed themselves; in Biblical terms they are like Esau in the 25th chapter of Genesis; but they bought into American citizenship that way — and are as immoral as Jacob in denying basic life or liberty without payment. Mormons in Utah do not prosecute polygamists at all. That is the fact. They excommunicate practicing polygamists. I am unaware of them actively seeking out polygamists, but it is considered a punishable offense within the modern church.
John, I appreciate your comment more than most. I am a Mormon, happy and unashamed. Two of my best friends are Wiccans. They are some of the brightest people I have ever known but just as your comment illustrates, there are many who make judgments about my faith because they simply do not know any better. Please allow me to edify you on the historical issue of polygamy as it relates to the Mormon faith. Polygamy was instituted in a time of dire need. Many families had lost their fathers, husbands and older brothers to any of thousands of uncontrolled factors.
The Mormon leadership instituted the practice of polygamy as a means of assigning responsibility for the well-being of these families to men who remained alive. They were tasked with leading and providing for people who were not originally theirs to care for.
We often think of the benefits of polygamy as being without cost, and so immoral, but fail to consider the enormous cost and responsibility that gave rise to this practice among Mormons, so long ago. When Mormons finally arrived and settled the Salt Lake Valley in Utah, the practice was continued for only about one or two generations before it was terminated. You are correct that one of many reasons for the discontinuation of the practice was that it was not generally approved of by the leaders of the US; and the Mormon leadership of the Utah territory wanted to be incorporated into the US.
However, make no mistake that it was not the primary reason for the cessation of polygamy. Mormons were finally settled. The population balance of male-to-female was being restored. Therefore, polygamy was no longer necessary. You have to eliminate the excess number of males in order to assign multiple females to one male. This creates an extreme abuse that anyone can see as wrong. I once questioned the issue of polygamy, like you and many others. After much study, I discovered that my historical perspective of the practice of polygamy is much clarified. It was never an issue of Core Mormon Belief to utilize polygamy; but a practice that had specific purpose based on the needs of the time and place in which it was utilized.
After the need had passed, the practice was correctly closed. Those who use the practice beyond the need succeed only in abusing the practice for their own selfish benefit. To your post I would add the following: Plural marriage goes back to Old Testament times, when Abraham, Jacob, David and Moses where commanded by God to have more than one wife that God might raise up a people unto himself. The doctrine that made it ok then is the same doctrine that made it ok for a short time when the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was first being established.
That doctrine is laid out in the Book of Mormon. Jacob reads as follows:. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts. As you can see, verse 30 explains that under certain circumstances the Lord has commanded plural marriage and gives his reason for doing so. If polygamy was a legal and accepted practice today, the LDS would be practicing it.
The simple reason the Salt Lake City branch of Mormonism abandoned the practice was to get church assets back from the U. With church assets seized by the government and the corporate entity dissolved, there was no church. The main reason for plural marriage being done away with was that the Lord had accomplished his purpose, and had raised up a people in these latter days to preach the everlasting gospel to every nation, kindred, tongue and people.
See Revelations Please note when you read this scripture that there would be no need for God to send this angel to preach the everlasting gospel to those who dwell on the earth if the gospel was still on the earth in its purity. The real reason Brother French is that Joseph got caught and thus got lynched for committing polygamy and polyandry. They have several podcasts on the subject. Joe and his sexual appetite for new partners creating a convenient revelation.
You are being sucked in if this is what you believe. I know, because my great grandfather, and his parents were there right from the start. Anyone who has attended our Gospel Doctrine classes and studied the revelations that Jesus Christ has given to the Church in these latter days should know that the New and Everlasting Covenant applies first and foremost to the covenant of marriage between a man, and a women. Naturally, that would include plural marriages authorized by God but would not be limited to those marriages.
Perhaps the following information will help you to become more familiar with our doctrine. Plural marriage goes back to Old Testament times, when Abraham, Jacob, etc. As you can see, this doctrine is very clear, and verse 30 explains that under certain circumstances the Lord has commanded plural marriage and gives his reason for doing so. Please show me the text in the OT that states god commanded old testament prophets to participate in Polygamy. Joseph took polygamy and turned it into a commandment from the lord that one had to follow to be saved. That is the major difference.
Also you are supporting your argument with the BOM! Please support it with biblical passages not your own doctrine. Last, I have re-read my comments on here and I want to say that I share my research and hope with you in love. I have not hate towards you or any LDS. I would recommend reading a book by one of your own. A temple going faithful latter day saint named Todd Compton. After the manifesto, Woodruff, the 12 and many others still practiced and took wives for years afterwards. As I see it you are only using a portion of the scriptures the Bible and therefore your situation is like a Jury that has reached a verdict without hearing the defense witnesses latter-day scriptures.
To get that witness directly from God a person must seek to know the truth in the way that God has prescribed. It is my opinion that to switch from being a detractor of the Church to being a believer is very difficult. It requires a lot more effort on their part than someone who has not first staked out such a position. However, over the years I have heard many members say that they did succeed in doing so. The following is how I personally think it must be approached.
First and foremost a person must have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ or at least be willing to do those things that will develop that faith. See James Second, a person must read and ponder the Book of Mormon, giving special attention to those chapters and verses concerning the atonement of Christ. See the list below. Third, he must ponder and be willing to apply the principles of the gospel as taught by the BOM into his life. See John Five, he must attend all our church meetings each and every Sunday to observe and understand how we apply the teachings of Jesus Christ into our lives.
Seven, he must be ready and willing to join the Church when he receives his witness from God that the Book of Mormon is the word of God. By doing these things he will show the Lord that he has a sincere heart and real intent. It is similar to listen to the radio. There are certain steps that must first be taken. I recommend this approach because it is exactly what my wife and I did, and we both received the promised witness from the Holy Ghost.
In addition, during the forty years or so that I have spent in missionary work for the Church I have never once seen this approach fail. See Matt , Moroni Enos — Enos experiences the power of the Atonement. Mosiah 2—5 — King Benjamin teaches of Christ. Mosiah 12—16 — Abinadi gives his life in testifying of Jesus Christ. Alma 5, 7 — Alma testifies of the Savior. Alma 17—22 — Lamanites receive the testimony of Jesus Christ. Alma 34 — Amulek testifies of the Atonement. Alma 36 — Alma experiences the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Alma 40—42 — Alma testifies of the resurrection and Atonement.
Ether 3 — The brother of Jared sees the Savior. Moroni 7—8 — Mormon teaches of the pure love of Christ and His Atonement. Moroni 10 — Moroni invites all to come unto Christ and be perfected in Him.
I happen to know them. Barack O. I can guarantee that when it comes time to get this current president out, conservatives all around will bound together in unison. Being Mormon will not affect Mitt Romney, specially if he has the backing of ministers and other important political figures, which he will! Mitt has already exceed B. If recent gubernatorial and house elections are any indication of what is to come and I mean any sign of the political shift in this country, get ready for some real change you will be able to count on!
One only has to look at local elections. Most members of polygamous groups, whether in Utah or not, have never been members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In reality, those that still practice polygamy would denounce the modern LDS church as being the true church. This is not entirely true. Although they may not have been baptized into the modern organization, they follow almost all of the same beliefs and use the same set of set of scriptures. In the rest of the country, it is much less likely that people are acquainted with someone who is Mormon.
There is also that competition thing—apparently Baptists and Evangelicals are mad when members of their church leave to become Mormons. This has given rise to some of the most inaccurate, un-Christian, crazy anti-Mormon propaganda. The goal of such drivel seems to be to keep people as far away from Mormons as possible. Sooner or later, when people figure out their church, however well-meaning, was lying to them about what Mormons believe, they start to wonder what else their church was lying to them about.
Interesting article, but did it really have to begin by talking about underwear? Cristine Hutchison-Jones seems to be very well informed about Mormons, but the poor journalist illustrates the problems of how hard it is for normal people to sort out the misinformation they learn for popular media. I do appreciate the good intentions and respectful tone of the article. Perhaps it will help to set that record straight. Yes, Mormons are Christians. For a deeper examination, you may want to explore Mormon. One who does not believe the same things Christians do can recite a prayer in his name with little comprehension of its meaning or just complete lack of faith.
A lot of people follow MLK Jr. Nicean Creed, very important! Be proud of your faith. The church encourages its members to join with their fellow citizens in supporting worthy programs that will make their communities better places to live and raise their families. The Lord does not interrupt free agency, and he suspends the consequences of poor exercise of agency only for the repentant. Again our options narrow down to either desecration or consecration. If we choose consecration, the fullness of a renewed, paradisiacal earth will be ours, and we will inherit all the Father has.
If we choose desecration, we will remain under degraded conditions, and the Lord will weep over our loss. I am given stewardship for them; so are we all. We can't escape it, and Mormon scripture makes clear that God will hold us accountable for our performance. That's sobering enough. But my grandchildren and their grandchildren will also hold me accountable. Loving them as I do and praying them for enjoy in nature such beauty, peace, solitude, and soul-renewal as that with which the earth has blessed me, how can I fail to do my best?
Specifically, he was to 'replenish the earth, and subdue it, and to have dominion over' every living thing in the biosphere Abraham There are two clearly marked departments—the earth itself as a storehouse and source of life, which Adam is to keep replenished filled is the word , and the creatures that move about on and over the earth, over which he is to have dominion. As Brigham Young explains it, while 'subduing the earth' we must be about 'multiplying those organisms of plants and animals God has designed shall dwell upon it,' namely, 'all forms of life,' each to multiply in its sphere and element and have joy therein.
Lordship and dominion are the same. The word lord is the usual English slurring of hlaf-weard, hlaford, the loaf-ward or keeper of the bread, because according to the Oxford English Dictionary, 'in its original sense the word absent from other Teutonic languages denotes the head of a household in his relation to the servants and dependents who 'eat his bread'. Which brings us in the dictionary to 'dominion,' derivative of domini-um, property, ownership, from dominus, lord, specifically 'the lord of the household,' in his capacity of generous host, 'pater familias and owner of the house' [domus].
The title of dominus designated the Roman Emperor himself as the common benefactor of mankind inviting all the world to feast at his board. In short, lordship and dominion are the same thing, the responsibility of the master for the comfort and well-being of his dependents and guests; he is the generous host, the kind pater familias to whom all look for support. He is the lord who provides bread for all. After commanding every form of life to multiply for the express purpose of having joy, God gave the identical command to Adam, at the same time putting him in charge of the whole operation, making him lord over the whole earth and giving him dominion over everything on the face of the earth.
We are familiar with the many ecological promises God has made, such as the declaration in our tenth article of faith that the 'earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory. We do not want to repeat past mistakes in our actions toward the Creation. Rather, it is our hope that the ebb and flow of intelligent, faith-directed action toward the Creation will give way to sustained improvement in attitudes and behaviors that are consistent with the eternal value of the Creation and its integral role in our own development.
Such persons will not hurt a worm. Animals feel pain very acutely. They know when they are treated kindly and when they are abused. God has given them this feeling, and if men or boys abuse them, He will condemn and punish them for so doing. They prove themselves unworthy of the power they have, and, by their cruelty, they sink beneath the brute. It's about functioning, viable ecosystems. Individual Church members, however, do need to become involved in local, state, and national environmental issues and exercise their agency as stewards.
Isn't it possible that the Lord will need to know how we took care of our little stewardship in this life if He is going to trust us with creations of our own? For many the connection between environmental stewardship and genealogy may seem tenuous, but in reality they both reflect a way in which we can become more linked across the generations. New Testament teachings emphasized the Lord as a good shepherd who watched over his flocks John 10 and a worker who tended the vineyards John Why is this such an important concept to Mormons? They knew firsthand the importance of stewardship for their personal survival.
Because human beings benefit from that goodness, we are obliged to make prudent and wise use of its bounty and to safeguard human health. We are blessed with this opportunity, and we are privileged to act in the place of God to serve those weaker than ourselves. This is a sacred stewardship for which we will be held accountable. He has ordained the use of animals to sustain our lives in times of need, but we are told to use judgment and to not shed blood when there is no need.
Furthermore, this injunction is not just a modern commandment. In the beginning, God gave our first parents a diet of plants. In the Bible account, consuming the flesh of animals is introduced only after the flood destroyed the vegetation on the earth. Continuing from the above verses we read: 'But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin. It is no small thing to be made the caretaker of the Lord's house and overseer of His creations.
We may not be doing very well in that regard. Last month, a thousand scientists from more than 50 countries produced a Global Biodiversity Assessment. It concluded that at least 4, plants and 5, animals are now threatened with extinction, and the rate of extinction in recent years is 50 to times that of the past. Our whole doctrine is based on giving man joy and upgrading his personality talents, traits, and environment. Latter-day Saints have special values to offer to any discussion or action dealing with these themes.
He believes taking care of the earth shows respect for 'that. God who created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are'" Morm. Kathleen Dean Moore and Michael P. Nelson, pg. Thou shalt safeguard thy fields from soil erosion, thy living waters from drying up, thy forests from desolation, and protect thy hills from overgrazing by thy herds, that thy descendants may have abundance forever.
If any fail in this stewardship of the land thy fruitful fields shall become sterile stony ground and wasting gullies, and thy descendants shall decrease and live in poverty or perish from off the face of the earth. Lowdermilk, Conquest of the Land through 7, years, U. Government Printing Office, , He thinks the world is good, and He loves it. It is His world; He has never relinquished title to it.
And He has never revoked the conditions, bearing on His gift to us of the use of it, that oblige us to take excellent care of it. To cherish what remains of it, and to foster its renewal, is our only legitimate hope. Sometimes these words conjure up images of an ultimate rule over powerless subjects. But no gift or station granted to us by God comes without responsibilities and expectations.
The earth, then, was created for us and given into our care. It is within our power to do with it what we like, but since it is God who entrusted it to us, it is to Him we shall answer for what we choose to do. The first is to care for our beautiful home. Yet our children are being exposed to views of man as a beast, of pollution as inevitable and irreversible, of cooperation as futile. Will they be prepared to refute those influences, not necessarily with the knowledge of a scientist, but with the testimony of the Spirit, acquired through personal, significant involvement with the Lord and his creations?
Certainly, if we are to become like him, we must begin to master the skills necessary to preserve and encourage the processes of life. The scriptures make it clear that we have dominion over the earth, but they also make it clear what that dominion means: We are to care for our planetary home and use its resources wisely. It was never intended that we abuse it. But no longer. The evidence is mounting that we are doing ourselves and our mortal home serious damage. How well are we doing? Thou madest [man] to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the Lord, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;. The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God. And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain. We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. Thou shalt be diligent in preserving what thou hast, that thou mayest be a wise steward; for it is the free gift of the Lord thy God, and thou art his steward.
I, the Lord, stretched out the heavens, and built the earth, my very handiwork; and all things therein are mine.
The Bible plus: The four books of Mormonism
For it is expedient that I, the Lord, should make every man accountable, as a steward over earthly blessings, which I have made and prepared for my creatures. And he that is a faithful and wise steward shall inherit all things. And verily in this thing ye have done wisely, for it is required of the Lord, at the hand of every steward, to render an account of his stewardship, both in time and in eternity. And the hour and the day is not given unto them, wherefore let them act upon this land as for years, and this shall turn unto them for their good. Behold, this shall be an example unto my servant Edward Partridge, in other places, in all churches.
And whoso is found a faithful, a just, and a wise steward shall enter into the joy of his Lord, and shall inherit eternal life. That they should let no pride nor haughtiness disturb their peace; that every man should esteem his neighbor as himself, laboring with their own hands for their support. For behold, are we not all beggars? Do we not all depend upon the same Being, even God, for all the substance which we have, for both food and raiment, and for gold, and for silver, and for all the riches which we have of every kind?
Wherefore, go to, and call servants, that we may labor diligently with our might in the vineyard, that we may prepare the way, that I may bring forth again the natural fruit, which natural fruit is good and the most precious above all other fruit. And the Lord of the vineyard caused that it should be digged about, and pruned, and nourished, saying unto his servant: It grieveth me that I should lose this tree; wherefore, that perhaps I might preserve the roots thereof that they perish not, that I might preserve them unto myself, I have done this thing.
For behold, thus saith the Lord, I will liken thee, O house of Israel, like unto a tame olive-tree, which a man took and nourished in his vineyard; and it grew, and waxed old, and began to decay. But if ye will nourish the word, yea, nourish the tree as it beginneth to grow, by your faith with great diligence, and with patience, looking forward to the fruit thereof, it shall take root; and behold it shall be a tree springing up unto everlasting life. Behold, the Lord hath created the earth that it should be inhabited; and he hath created his children that they should possess it.
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